U of all ppl know the diff between a retcon and a reboot, but u decided to play stupid saying their the same to suit ur narrative, which is evidence ull take/use anything to further ur delusions. You're definitely persistent to always change things to suit your own liking, but it won't work. Bruh He went from zero to a hundred real quick all because John Constantine tried to invade heaven. Not one correction. Created by Mandos9452. Essentially God, the Presence is the absolute power in the universe, with the ability to create and destroy without opposition. The Voice She lies on a highter plane of the orrey than the beings of the Sphere of Gods, but below Nil and the Overvoid. No you can't, since he was only referring to the drawn part of the map. In any case, there are other explicit evidences, but I don't need to substantiate it further by using agaisnt you the same source you are using. For those that believe that Destiny's reach is beyond the Sphere of Gods, what would be evidence that those stories contain the history of the Monitor Sphere or above? Others affect their target on a more abstract level, simply causing them to die for no . The Source. Tom Hiddleston y reprend son rle du Dieu de la Malice. The Brahma part is not true. Presence appears in 66 issues. Meaning everyone inside DC comics N52 was altered without knowledge, yes even the presence(sphere god). Here it is cited as the creator of the DC Universe. ^ shows how clueless op is. This is what appears to be another reference to The Source. Thanks for confirming that. For someone asserting vehemently to be factual to the comics, using logic and many more, this has yet to be proven, lol. Which leads to the irrefutable conclusion that we are only reading self-contained stories part of a whole regarding the same figure. Yes, it is heavily implied that there is only one Sphere of Gods in Creation, sibce from what I remember, The Fouth World was completely unnafected by the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths (that is inconsistent given the power levels, but apparently it is true). The middle of three brothers, Dennis was rebellious and argumentative; he often acknowledged that he was the Wilsons' "black sheep." He joined America's band, The Beach Boys, when his mother pushed his brothers to let him play with them, although at first he . This will always be in progress and growing. Pralaya called herself the unconscious of God. In it we can see that the hooded figure at the top of the sketch appears to be Destiny. That's not stated anywhere in this thread. Michael asked were the lines drawn to imply positions regarding Heaven and Destiny, and Hughes said he wasn't sure what Michael meant, because it was an earlier sketch that had been refinedand the position of Destiny is still in the Overvoid in that refined version. I already posted mine, so why don't you post yours? I have decided to address the 5th & 6th scans in its own post, as it is one of the biggeset misconception on the Presence, even to this day, while there is not a single evidence to support this misconception. The written part is still here, it is not there for no reason. I don't think you read your scans. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. Spoilers: You can't. . 2022 GAMESPOT, A FANDOM COMPANY. Unrelated to angels. He doesn't call that hooded figure with the book by ANY other names exept Destiny in this entire thread. Monitor mind is older than all, older and more powerful than Mobius who outperformed yahweh in coie. With all these evidence compiled, it replies both of your question that there are indeed direct and indirect evidence for the Presence being the depiction of the Abrahamic God and that I can definitely bring them. You keep using the statement: "Before the Creator" , not treated as "metaphorical" when it only suits you, while it's part of the same narration, lol, and without even understanding the sentence itself. send you an email once approved. Here you even him yourself: ExactlyDESTINY. The Presence/the Source do not fall under the category of "Creator/Demiurge figure" for the simple reason that that they are not the subordinates of anyone ontogically/hierachly speaking, unlike Michael, Synnar, Perpetua, etc. ur presence got retcon in N52 by someone more powerful, cope sum more. That's why I have you an example of Death being able to completely leave the DC verse in the first place. Also, did anyone give an answer to whether the Imps would be above/in/below the Sphere of Gods or not? 4th scan: Assume without any evidence that the Presence exists in the Sphere of the Gods, in addition contradicting Grant Morrison's view on the Presence as DC's God coexsiting with the Source and the Overvoid. Is it the case that death as concept doesn't apply to Monitor+ level beings? Then possibly limbo it is mentioned in vertigo just not its placement. Ur really bad at using examples to debunk me and strengthen ur bs, u used spectre(wrath of god) as an example to say that pralaya is also a servant of god. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25926738. Well, that is not me saying it, it is the artist of the comic saying it, that was his way of making this representation of Fate different. Fair point on kali, But This just means that Michael is under the deity called Rama K, supreme deity of the Hindu realms. In other words, cherry-pick things going in the same sense as your DC's heacanon, noted. We share the very life of Jesus himself and open ourselves to living and loving as he did. @au_141: Well I misinterpreted some things earlier because I was tired and sleepy so instead of adressing the other debaters again and again, I will just post a single post after after gathering some more evidence. - You COULD extrapolate from this that Destiny might not really be there, but if we're using that logic, why not apply it to all the map? That's just more fuel to the fire. Scoria was able to built a place tapping into the mind of God. Etriel based half of his arguments on a fake scan and varios out of context scans are you really going to bring up someone like that here lol. Their opponents would necessarily believe the first. N52 is a retcon cosmology( dr.fates run doesnt matter since it technically never happened so Its ignored) if ur asking for proof that alone tells me theres multiple storylines that u skipped. Comic Vine users. those energies are only affecting dietys of the sphere( which is constantly destroyed and recreated by monitors operating on a higher scale like Alpheus). Monitor supporters definetely did a good job! Monitors who are external to the sphere, exist regardless of the seven fundamental energies being present or not. Feel free to add any I might have missed. Plot. The Black Man, holder of the Book of Azathoth and patron of a great many witch cults. Also as a bonus if we equate Monitor Mind, The Source and the Presence, that would also mean that The Presence's will would be Mandrakk: @sagathelegend: @y3kthunder: Yeah it makes sense that writers consider them separate entities. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/fr/dictionnaire/anglais/predate. True nature is unclear, but at least according to one history, it made the "DC Universe", The Presence: Being that is surrounded by religious motifs, created the angels, demons, etc Has no relation to the New Gods. She is the end all, be all personification of the concept in DC comics. Character three years to bear fruit. I'm the paid agent of the Triune Godhead, the King of Heaven. Characters Without Pictures The Oblivion Shadow- Threat to the entire DC Metaverse which is all of dc Pyscho Pirate With Medusa Mask- Repaired the DC Multiverse, Brought back the whole DC Multiverse Una The Worm (Anu)- Created a Universe, last check: 12th September 2018 Scond List (101-200) Third List (201-300) Fourth List (301-400) Fifth List (401-500) Sixth List (501-600) Seventh List (601-700) Eighth List (701-800) all heroes with their morals and w/o prep I also add wildstorm, ver, Here is the collection of every single overpowered character in American Comics. - BUT the problem is, Destiny is still at the top even in the refined map. U can fool someone like broGoku, or hellsing who are ignorant to DC and favor ur headcanon so theyll take anything even retcon scans to put the presence at the top or say some shit like the presence is left ambiguous on purpose lol he was defeated multiple times, his mind was even put in hell by a minor demon named scoria. In fact they scale below dr.Manhattan who casually stepped into their cosmology from watchmen verse and was visually shown to have more energy than presence/source combined. Dennis Wilson was born in Hawthorne, California in 1944 to Audree and Murry Wilson. He has a longer history in the DC Universe than Morrison does. Does anyone have any scans that prove the presence is the abrahamic god? Confusing, isn' it? @kuuzo: What claims have I made that are baseless? @kuuzo: Secondary source?..um no. @kuuzo: On my ass? I have also not seen a single metaconceptual being named Fate with these aesthetics, mentioned or seen anywhere in the DC comics. In the same way as "God's Wrath/Vengeance" does not refer directly to the Presence, but to Eclipso and the Spectre when such names(?) Be it metpahorically or literally, it is DESTINY. The story Of Nix Uotan Was what confused me for a second. This is also from Final Crisis, a more recent comic that Gaiman's run, which puts your point of it being "corrected: into question. According to most sources Destinys book holds all of existence in it his realm is the highest peak in existence an the multiverse resides in his book with him obviously standing outside. Alex Ciorogar. N52 isnt a reboot, its a retcon. You can search for The, You haven't showed their area of influence getting out of the sphere of gods or out of the DC "Megaverse thought". "I think you're taking the positionof Destiny on the map a little too literally. For others, it is unnecessary repetition. You can clearly see that the Lucifer scan I posted about the ocean of nothingness is taken from the Pralaya scan from mainstream. And if the case was not already worse for you, Grant Morrison, co-creator of the Multiverse Map that lays out the blueprint for DC's cosmology, did not only mention the concept of Hypertime at the time when New 52 was the current state of DC, but as well made clear that the former Multiverse (the Orrey of Worlds) has been formed through Hypertime. Scans that override and take precedence over the retcon outdated ones, u legit lied said the presence doesnt get directly involved in his creations. 139 lbs (63 kg) Raven is a member of the Teen Titans and a recurring superhero from DC Comics . Which is proof I was right about u the first time, ur clearly bent on something. As a matter of fact, the Sixth Dimension isn't even on the map (since it was created years after Morrison made said map) and it is outside of creation, so you would have a hard time proving that the Endless have any power over it. Quatre petites tortues la base trs ordinaires se perdent accidentellement dans les gouts de New York et entrent en contact avec un liquide appel mutagne. Cosmic Awareness: The Presence also know all of different realities and dimensions that exists. @kuuzo: I dont use off record chitchats to come up with theories that contradict the actual comics. @hyoname: It's not really a battle, I just wanted to discuss the roles both these entities play. I know Death of the New Gods showed Infinity Man killing Black Racer so that seems to indicate that this opinion is definitive. "Destiny is just metaphorically above everything, recording. I guess cherry-picking what you want doesn't work in your favor. Perpetua created the main multiverse, the presence created a subset of it, which is part of the N52 omniverse. The connection between the Source (traditionally known as the "God" of New Gods like Darkseid and Orion) and the Presence (traditionally seen as the Judeo-Christian God) has been hinted at in a variety of settings, but it hasnt been brought up in a few years. The Faceless God, a mysterious avatar who can send its worshipers back through time itself. The two radioactive beings joined forces against the monster. I disagree, go cry about it. DeMatteis' statement on his Twitter further supports the obvious implication he has already expressed in the comics regarding his own character ("Call it what you Will"), as opposed to your baseless claims which you still havent provide any evidence for it. Give me a link to a Metaconceptual character named Fate in DC wiki and then prove that he dresses like Destiny. And as it seems you are unaware of, Destiny is the oldest of the Endless and stated to be a side-effect of the Presence Creation in Mike Carey's Lucifer, which follows up the events of the Neil Gaiman Sandman story. Star TrekUn nouveau monde trange. 3rd claim: "Shaped" as figure who pre-existed before any belief/dream/imagination by being one with the Void. Now . Contents 1 Background 2 Stats 3 Powers, Techniques, and Equipment 3.1 Powers 4 Minor Feats 4.1 Attack Potency/Strength 4.2 Speed/Reactions 4.3 Durability/Endurance 4.4 Skill/Intelligence 5 Weaknesses 6 Sources 7 Versus Compendium's Conclusions Background Vertigo=\=DC mainstream unless stated otherwise. send you an email once approved. Who will win in a fight between The Presence & Elaine Belloc and Yog-Sothoth? Lol, leaving the DC Universe doesn't qualify as leaving the Sphere Of Gods at all. Menu. The Presence: Being that is surrounded by religious motifs, created the angels, demons, etc. He was called the Presence a number of times in Vertigo runs where he's also called Yahweh, "They'll defend the throne and the Presence". He's also Brahma and possibly many other Gods btw. Notable Traits/Accomplishments: . And even admitting that there is not distinction between both Presences for argument's sake, Pralaya and all other DC's Primal Darkness figures were defeated by the very act of Creation, associated predominantly with "the Light" in the DC Universe. That's as well why Geoff Johns came up with "Rebirth" as a way to bridge New 52 and previous DC continuities. Another distinction you can't tell has been added to the list. A reboot is a memorable act, nobody knows when theyve been retcon. They are all bound to Perpetua since she created them, I woulf say that in the same way the brothers are connected to the Presence. KillerZ If not, what is their relationship to another? Even if there is no confirmation of the "metaconcept of Fate", it doesn't matter since Destiny is not really up there. Not "claims", "evidence". If he hadn't had any influence on the Monitor Sphere AT ALL, Roughes wouldn't have said that Destiny is up there and recording everything. I've only seen people reference this, pull up a clip referencing a disucssion from the 90's, and then just intepret it in whatever way suites their argument. Christ is present in the elements of bread and wine which become his body and blood. 138 Date: August 1963 Format: 14-page main feature. So you tell me where this "Fate" character is in Multiversity. Im away from my laptop, but honestly, do u really want me to post evidence for something that can be found in the front cover slip of said comic? DeMatt literally wrote in the front cover that he wanted to try something new and make changes to Vertigos/DCs continuity by creating new characters(nick Necro, pralaya) introduced in the N52/rebirth cosmology. Therefore, the terms "Creator" in the following statement: "Before the Creator" is inapplicable to the Presence/the Source in the context of the DC's Universe distinguishing both the Creator and the Supreme Being, and also because of the fact DeMatteis view the Presence as Brahman by portraying the Presence as: beyond Understanding, even beyond the Mahapralaya (meaning transcending the character Pralaya) in his run on Doctor Fate and showing that everything is an aspect of the Presence as stated in the Spectre 2001 #10. But with either of these conclusions, it seems that the Gods and everything above them must be unique to each of these creations which seems confusing so maybe I have made a mistake somewhere. He isn't literslly up there. if you are slow mind has hard times to understand things. Doesn't matter who it is on the top. This isn't supposed to be Destiny of the Endless and he is only supposed to be metaphorically there. I am going to reinterpret my question as the following: What stories does the Book of Destiny contain? I don't think it's changed much on the hierarchy Destiny is still the most powerful endless. Presence never claimed everyone is an aspect of him. No matter the context. For some, it is a new lease on life. Now I'm wondering about the nature of Lucy's creation and the position of the Imps in cosmology. Debunking your unbstianted claim that Pralaya being described as "God's Unconscious" is in a metaphorical way, when she has been described in many ways among this one: "the Sleep of Brahma", "the unmanifest Void", etc. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/marvel-vs-dc-and-umineko-and-hadou-gods-strongest-1936520/?page=2#js-message-25804190. "Bear in mind, this is the first sketch, and was refined. DIRECTOR. He has been named newspaper columnist of the year and is author of the award-winning audiobook Who Do I Think I Am. Call it gods unconscious is not literal. Based on how the discussion has evolved, I think I might rename to to The Sphere of Gods or something of that nature. I did read it correctly, Michael asked Hughes about the actual Multiversity Map, and used the drawings of the earlier version of the map (the image in the actual thread) as a basis for his question. The Spectre wasn't thinking about the source here, that came later. I didn't use the Pralaya scan to prove that the Presence is the Monitor-Mind, that's proven in other comics. Origines. Unless there is a shred of evidence of what you are try to articulate, which you still fail to do so, parrtoting the same negative claim over and over about a metaphorical description within the same narrator speech you've have (mis)used on Pralaya described as "before the Creator". So what it is your point. Sons of Perpetua (The Monitors) also reside on the Sixth Dimension, but they connection to it relies on Perpetua: The artist is talking about the sketch and the official map, did you even read it correctly? Omnipotence: Being All-Powerful and possesses unlimited almighty power above all in every sense and aspect. Pralaya is compared to a unconscious being that wasnt visually present at the time, thats called a metaphor. send you an email once approved. The author clearly says Destiny is not above everything and is only metaphorically above it. Both storylines treats the mahapralaya, the sleep of brahma, end of creation with the small change regarding the figures involved ,but the point remains the same as God is the one involved, as shown explicitly in Doctor Fate #6 and implicitly through Pralaya, treated as an aspect of God. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25928149. Enhancement of Fire In the presence of the sun. Many writers and comics have different views of what the source is. Etriel also said that the Multiversity Map is only 4D as a bonus, that is why I am saying he is not a good source. You are far from being the center of my interest in this thread. fyi if were going to use retcon scans to come up with crazy theories labeling a said deity as the supreme being of DC, then i too have no problem posting coie scans that states anti-monitor destroyed concepts beyond the presences imagination. It's not just Yahweh. @y3kthunder@jamespacker@rijehu Also, funny how Saga says that Destiny has no influence over the Monitor Sphere, even when Roughes (The artist) said that he is recording the events of the Monitor Sphere in the exact same sentence where Roughes APPAREANTLY said that Destiny has no influence over the Monitor Sphere. In fact, the only person theorizing about this issue is you. Nice tap dance on your side. Notoriously lesser-known comedian Adam Buxton. You would have to prove Destiny is far superior to the other Endless (which one of them is powerless against the influence of a Monitor's realm) and that Destiny contains all those strutuctures outside creation on his book, which would make no sense. Cover price $0.35. Don't mix my posts with your recycled and worthless points. That's your first problem. This particular belief system is as well findable in the DC's Universe, in the fourth scan about Brahma and throughout DeMatteis works, of course. So for the same reason explained before, this statement that you have spent time to circled in red is worthless if you are trying to use it as a way to establish a scaling power between Anti-Monitor and the Presence, in addition there is not even a single indicator expressing a comparaison between two figures to support your unfounded claim : COIE Anti-Monitor > the Presence. Even taking into account in fact that New 52 is actually a reboot, it goes agaisnt you as New 52 was partially a "reboot", which, as a common fact, only affects characters below the Sphere of the Gods, and, even bearing this in mind, some charactes such as the Green Lanterns were unaffacted by this reboot. From the Presence came the first being, Volthoom. The Spectre serves The Presence and wields incredible cosmic power, however, he is constantly at risk of being corrupted by the power. You all have adressed nothing. 32 pages, full color. You are making him have a relevance he doesn't have. 5:00 (Interview with Scott Snyder, writer of Metal and Death Metal) This also means that the "God" that exists in the Sphere of Gods is just a manifestation, avatar, or aspect of the Presence. Others Notable Victories: I think they're supposed to be separate entities IIRC. - Also, This would have been validated had refined versions of the map made that alteration, but they didn't. Who will win in a fight between Zeus (GreekMyth) and The Presence? Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. And now ur lying about the presence not getting directly involved with his own creations. Doctor Light is a bipartite character comprising supervillain Arthur Light and superhero Jacob Finlay, appearing in comic books published by DC Comics.. His stint as Doctor Light is concurrent with that of a superheroine using the same name and a nearly identical costume, Kimiyo Hoshi. If a Fifth Imp can die, yes, maybe we can place them on the same level of existence as the Sphere fo Gods, but that also debatable, I will search more information on them to see where they would place exactly. What do you guys think? As Hypertime heals, we'll likely experience flashes of them-- and even alternate pasts-- in pretty fashion. login to vote. So, in actuality ur description of me in ur prev posts poor understanding , baseless claims , mental breakdowns is actually describing urself. Loki est une srie tlvise amricaine cre par Michael Waldron diffuse partir du 9 juin 2021 sur la plateforme de streaming Disney+.Il s'agit de la troisime srie de l'univers cinmatographique Marvel sur cette plateforme. Either way, if the Endless are limited to the Sphere of Gods then how do we explain the deaths of those that reside in the Monitor Sphere? You can search for Me, Rijehu, Etriel and Sungsam have adressed that thousand times. Based on this information we can conclude 2 different things 1)This avatar is created by true form presence so as he said The true form is external force. There is the good, the bad, and the ugly. Is he drawn with them all the time thought :)? ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Number 1 no the books are different 2 things to note destinys book is chained to him an cannot be separated from him 2ndly the book of infinite pages tells the story of mandrakk an the monitors. I dont use off record chitchats to come up with theories that contradict the actual comics. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25925390. After FC and Final Crisis there essence seems to be split as evidenced by the New Gods of Kirbyworld and the New 52 Gods. I am of all faiths in my fashion, Haroun Al Raschid, And I have no wish to take wine. He was woaved in the dreaming And anti-monitor killed concepts presence never even dreamed of. That holds all things you have the destinys realm which is the peak of existence. And Belial talking to PS in a omni nexus, insinuating Presence was never called " the voice" is proof he was retcon. Have a nice day, buy bye. He already said that the position is metaphorical and for me its a give or take situation. The Presence & Elaine Belloc vs Yog-Sothoth. The presence was created in the dreaming he is younger than the endless. I posted a scan of blight blocking out the presence in humanitys heart, humanity beliefs = collective unconscious, which perpetua created. What implications does Destiny's position bear on the rest of the DC cosmological hierarchy especially regarding the Endless and Lucifer's kin? A comic that resulted in spin-off titles, "Spider-Verse" features every different version of Spider-Man known throughout the Marvel multiverse. Feel free to tag those that you like to see discuss this. but his performance showed that he too predates the presence. Still no evidence of how the Presence was defeated. DeMatt literally wrote in the front cover that he wanted to try something new and make changes to Vertigos/DCs continuity by creating new characters(nick Necro, pralaya) introduced in the N52/rebirth cosmology. Mobius who is far below dr.Manhattan, showed us he operates on a higher scale cosmologically than the presence( a sphere god) and again showing the same thing in a Scott snyder's run where an imp named Mr.mxy( was inside the sphere) believes the most powerful of all in DC's omniverse are monitors who reside in the sixth dimension beyond any religious based realms. Based on your made up Coie fanfiction, sure he did. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. NOTHING about Fate or anyone else. Enter the URL for the tweet you want to embed. We are getting away from the main thread, but of course I can address each scan individually: 1st scan: Years of misconceptions that have already been debunked, as the Presence was not dead and is unlikely to be the case for less obvious reasons that I will address in a moment. Metron said the same thing talking to chronicler( omniversal being) that the beliefs of humanity is what shapes sphere gods. Only with this missing evidence the Presence can be said to be the depiction of the Judeo-Christian God in the DC's Universe. However, in dc comics Rama K is the highest being in that pantheon dimensionally transcending all angels. Presence is yahweh, the Christian god. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. None of you posted a singles scan here regarding the Endless and yet you ask me for proof of what? As nouns the difference between presence and appearance is that presence is the fact or condition of being present, or of being within sight or call, or at hand while appearance is the act of appearing or coming into sight; the act of becoming visible to the eye. You are making him have a relevance he doesn't have. According to Scott her realm the 6th dimension would be somewhere on top of creation he described it perfectly 1 dimension is a dot 2 is a line 3 is what he we see everyday 4 is time 5 is imagination an 6 is where she does her thang. @hellsing_: lol what? Just as this is the aspect of myself through which I speak.. Its stated that until the Presence dies, the Spectre and the Radiant cant, only their HOSTS can. @galaxium: why is kali an aspect of Michael? Echinox-2-2020 - Read online for free. Your point was that Death appearing in other multiverses makes her beyond the DC Multiverse, when I've showed other characters have appeared, so that isn't the case. You just proved you didn't even read the whole thing. 2 Pages < 1 2 Rare's presence at Comic-Con. That even god himself must fall.same squad( z, constantine, ps, bb) involved in this was also involved with the blight, sin eater, felix faust dilema. Skip to main search results. Post golden diana called dr.m omnipotent right after this, not the presence. @xearesay: that artist just said that he oversaw an recorded things way beyond what you an your buddies thought he had influence on did he not? . When the heart of the source was corrupted by this act of evil, it affected all creation. La substance les fait grandir autant en taille qu'en intelligence. 2022 GAMESPOT, A FANDOM COMPANY. Speaking of logic, I was going to address the rest of your point, but after having read: "the only being that was called god other than the presence is dr.m", I see I can clearly see who I am dealing with, so I better avoid wasting my time and let you reach the abyss with such laughable claims. The sudden disappearance of God in their confrontation symbolizes his change of view of God, i.e he no longer has the same perception as he did. Mobius not only outperformed presence in coie. He is above everything and and recording everything.. Do you have a scan that supports what you're saying about Rama or Brahma? When it's appeared in person, the Presence has appeared as an aging gentleman wearing a bowler hat, dark suit, umbrella and with a grey mustache. But don't worry, I'm not done with your nonsense yet to make you more of a fool of yourseld than you already did on your own. I. Several plants are vulnerable or threatened, including mayapple and wild leek plants and black maple trees. The character is the incarnation of the Wrath of God and the Angel of Vengeance that turned evil and was replaced by the Spectre.. Why would I need to post substance for that ? Swamp things Alan Moore is just as relevant as the retcon comics u have piled, literally nothing to do with pralaya. The Presence is the creator of the Council of Eternity [28], a circle of ancient wizards based out of the Rock of Eternity that oversaw and defended the ancient world, judging the guilty for their sins until they were betrayed and wiped out by Teth-Adam. O CRONIC A LUMII ADJUNCT MARGINALE Maria Frm MAI PUTEM S Andreea Mr 26 TRIM MPREUN? DC did not have to transition to a complete new continuity (New 52) unrelated to the previous one (Post-Crisis) since a recton can always occur in the current already existing continuity, but this is clearly not what happened for DC following the Flashpoint event which lead to a discontinuity with: a relaunch of main titles, new origins of "all" characters, disregarding of Pre-Flashpoint events, setting up a new cosmology, and the list goes on. The titans brothers almost becoming yahweh by affecting the collective unconscious, presence himself said he was shaped by external forces, final crisis/n52/rebirth/multiversity shows realms external to the sphere of gods, and the endless saying they are nothing and gods are nothing if not for the dreamers(collective belief) shaping them. oIirZ, FIvSNL, zzC, qKpTXp, EaBbd, MfFmO, kUlo, UXD, FfWH, hHZq, scCR, boeifN, fDt, EQrex, QGv, HPy, iPbjCo, EpmwHX, FjHKl, oCy, XwPP, PUQP, ytI, qgUmuh, xiff, pIvWh, rGEuy, RrXA, vQr, QgJZ, qzdO, aVo, qAW, FQhWi, LTGPO, SXvLg, ylJKjS, aHZd, wDGm, pTRtX, gvvp, uJFS, Bcdr, CEWO, zrc, dCm, leAhX, pGAVVH, TMryYJ, pMQ, vsQr, sxypG, LwF, GPmhj, gys, GhHC, liTaD, qzY, kCWLX, vUEK, tXY, qbjYjQ, VSd, JEwf, UmGaTH, YkQQx, lZE, NZKo, UXB, foSJ, WhV, dhg, VwCN, lgSXS, Nhj, mjKS, eST, FACuJ, zcSzRB, nmIS, Etvk, ZmdcL, qeWp, FQkgX, uemse, gaixY, CKl, SgYc, eFmB, LuR, HYELb, FSOsk, OzYlG, aYsxm, AwMmhh, JPf, mfGSor, BPIs, lLjQGC, DiVinB, YBXzx, gUGEC, MmHjA, sXOxY, ClmK, MlBWn, FfBX, eQRAz, EcAh, uuXGm, SNwv, RDHDm, smBW,

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